Episode 4: Trevor Quinn: Innovating Business Growth and Leadership in Home Services

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What's up, guys, and welcome to episode 4 of Brand Up your Business podcast.

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I've got a good friend and I would say almost like a business companion slash.

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We throw work back and forth together.

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Trevor Quinn, you want to kick this off?

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Introduce yourself and we can go from there.

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Yeah, so my name is Trevor Quinn and I own Vaporlock Crawl Space Solutions.

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I guess a quick nugget about how we got started back in 2017.

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My wife and I found out we're having our first baby and realized very quickly that I did not have enough enough money to support a family and get a growing family on the company salary.

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So I did what probably most people would do and, you know, went to my boss and tried to lobby for you know promotion or a uh, like a raise, and he was like, hey look, I agree, you need this and you deserve the promotion.

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However, the money's just not there.

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So, um, rather than you know, put my you know my faith in my family's future in somebody else's hands, I decided, you know what, I'm gonna just take matters into my own hands and start a company.

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Um, so I started doing like crawl space work back in like I don't know 2012, like on my dad's house and some other ones on the side, and I had no desire to take that full time.

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But when I kind of felt like I had no choice, I was like you know what I've got the skill I can fall back on.

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And you know, back in 2017, 2018, there really wasn't a ton of competition in the upstate uh as far as like crawlspace work goes, um, and then there's still not a ton right now, but you know you've got the big three franchises here now, but back then it was pretty much blue ocean.

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There really wasn't a whole lot of other companies doing what we did.

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So we're really kind of one of the pioneers for the process and the way like crawlspace science is not new, but the way that I feel like we approach things was different and that's kind of what set us apart.

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Um, so, yeah, that's what happened.

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So, yeah, we started doing crossfaces back in 2018 and you know it's 2025 and we're still going strong.

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We've added several other uh businesses and you know, I guess, lines of lines of service underneath the vapor lock brand since then yeah, that's very cool.

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I I know I see you guys a lot on social media and you leverage like Facebook groups and word of mouth and referrals a lot to almost kind of how like we started our business.

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It's like that low cost, like high trustworthy form of like marketing and getting your name out there.

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It's almost like referral partners.

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Essentially, like I know for the longest time, it seems like you and me like with my pressure washing work, I don't like to do gutter cleanouts and then, like one of those arms of your business, you do gutter, gutter cleanouts.

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So like we'll always throw work around, uh, to like symbiotically help each other exactly, yeah, we, we rely really heavily on organic networking and word of mouth.

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um, I feel like we have a really high brand awareness and a really high reputation in the Greenville community specifically because of that.

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We don't spend a ton of money on, you know, actual marketing or advertising.

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I would probably say 85 to 90% of our business legitimately comes from word of mouth, referrals or just high brand awareness and traffic on our, you know, google, my business page or our website itself.

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Um, so, yeah, and as far as the gutter cleaning stuff goes, yeah, you were, you were our first gutter cleaning uh client.

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Um, and it was just kind of a funny story when people always ask cause, obviously everything rolls up under the crawl space brand for us.

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So when you roll up to a job site to work on a crawl space and you've got a truck with, you know, 40 foot ladders on top, they always ask hey, if you're doing crawl spaces, why do you need ladders?

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It's kind of an interesting upsell, but it's all related, it's all you know water management and we're trying to keep it, you know, away from the house and not from under the home.

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Yeah, as far as the gutter cleaning stuff goes, we like Vaporlock and then Matt the driver guy, the team.

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We've bounced work back and forth, I don't know probably since what for five years, since like 2020, I think is when we started doing gutters with you guys.

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Yeah and yeah.

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So we're business partners, but we don't have equity in each other's business, we just have a vested interest in each other.

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So it's a cool partnership.

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Yeah, the we just have a vested interest in each other.

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So it's a cool partnership.

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Yeah, the equity we have is goodwill in each other, yeah so.

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Yeah, it's just sweat equity and nothing tangible.

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Yeah, so it's great.

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And obviously with Clay we kind of have the same thing with him.

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It's awkward sometimes because I'm like who do I, you know, who do I recommend here versus here?

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So I kind of split Greenville down the middle and I said send stuff his way and send some stuff your way.

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But it's nice.

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I think that was one of the ways that we built.

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Our company is like off of strategic partnerships, and I think it helps us and it helps you guys that you're partnering with another company in the upstate that is really high value and has such a good reputation for such a long time to partner I'm like hey, like, hey, look the company that we partner with.

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This is who we recommend.

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I think it goes a long way for homeowners yeah, plus, like you're, you're involved in a lot of like high ticket things and you have a reputation that you want to protect there.

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Like if if we're saying, hey, this guy's going to clean out your gutters, I know you're going to do a good job, because you don't want your reputation to be pulled down by not cleaning gutters correctly when you're selling like a $30,000 vapor barrier for somebody's home or exactly, you're doing like stuff that's big enough where you're not going to like throw your reputation out the window over something small right and that's kind of that's really where we've made our like.

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That's like the cornerstone for us is that we don't ever want to leave a job site Like.

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We always want to leave it better than we found it.

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We don't ever want to leave things worse.

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For the crawl space, it's pretty hard to screw that up because they're usually awful when we get there.

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But for the gutter cleaning stuff, you know they might have stuff hanging over their gutters but if you go up there with a leaf blower and you blow out wet leaves and stuff, you're going to cake it all over the side of the house or the sidewalk or the driveway or the cars or the patio.

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So we want to make a point to clean up everything after we're done.

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And sometimes it's a simple $150 gutter cleaning job, which is not a whole lot to a small business like us but to the average homeowner.

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Spending $150 once or twice a year that can make a difference.

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And the last thing they want to do is, you know, spend their heart and money to have you not do it correctly or not do it completely or, you know, do it and then hurry out, leave a mess.

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So we just want to make sure that we're putting everything into every single job, whether it's 150 gutter cleaning or it's a 15 000.

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You know cross-based encapsulation, it doesn't really matter what the project is.

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We're going to give 100 of our focus to every single client that we're working on at that time.

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Yeah, do you ever cross-sell stuff, say you're going in on a gutter cleaning job and then hey, by the way, we can fix your cross-bays, or do you do involved with roof stuff or gutter guards?

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Are there other?

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areas that you're able to go in on a low ticket and then up, upsell or cross sell other things that you provide as well.

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Yeah, a lot of time it happens naturally in conversation.

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Sometimes you know we work with homeowners that we rarely ever meet, like you know.

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They've got a second home here, like up on Lake Kiwi, that we've never actually met them face to face.

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But for the most part you know homeowners.

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They want to get to know you, they want to know who they're in business with, they want to know who they're sending their money to.

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And so, like I said, sometimes it really happens naturally.

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You know you show up to do clean someone's gutters and then all of our stuff says you know vapor lock, crawl space solutions.

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So they're hey, you know what's up with this, like, what else do you guys do?

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And then we start so yeah, for gutters, we do gutter cleaning, installation and maintenance.

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So if I show up for a gutter cleaning job and they're interested in gutter guards or gutter, you know leaf protection, we can do that.

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But if they've got, you know, no downspouts or broken downspouts or elbows, we can fix all that stuff as well.

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But also, you know we can install gutters.

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So if they want.

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You know, if they have five-inch gutters, they're falling off.

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They want new six-inch gutters.

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We can install gutters as well.

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We do roofing as well too.

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That's under a separate company, that's under Viking, but it's the same premise.

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We're on top of house cleaning gutters or installing gutters.

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I'm going to notice the roof.

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So 90% of the time I'm like hey look, we're up here, We'll go back and work with your insurance company and then we can see what we go from there.

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Um, and then the crawl space is as well.

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If we, you know, if I notice the house has, you know, vents on the side of the house, I can ask them hey look, we also in a crawl space company.

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When's the last time you had your crawl space inspected?

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And we just offer them a free, you know crawl space inspection or consultation on the spot, and usually the work does you know, speaks for itself.

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If you've done a good job cleaning someone's gutters, they're going to trust you to do the other thing.

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If you've done a bad job cleaning someone's gutters, they're not going to trust you to do any more work.

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It's really easy if you are constantly having that high attention to detail and the high level of care.

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It translates over across all the business units that we run, translates over across all the business units that we run.

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Like I said, it really it's an.

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It's not an easy upsell, but it's an easy add on to say hey look, we've already done this with you.

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What about this?

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Yeah, very much.

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So it is cool Cause, like I have, you have you ever spent like money on Google or like money on paid advertising here?

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And there is most of it have just been like with strategic partnerships with like local, service-based businesses and like, hey, this is the value I provide, this is what we can do, and then you've kind of grown your business from there so organically through strategic partnerships for the first several years, but we've started to invest a little bit more money on, like, the google ads.

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Um, we don't really do a whole lot of facebook ads, like, I've done some research on it and I haven't found that for us that's the best return for our investment.

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So, you know, google ads, pay-per-click ads and targeted ads and mailers and things like that.

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It's kind of where we're starting to focus.

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Next, I haven't I really haven't been super sold on the Facebook stuff, at least for us, you know, for our niche.

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I just don't think that's where we're going to hit.

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There's a lot of traffic that I see on Facebook.

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I get everybody else's suggested or targeted ads because I'm a cross-border company and I'm constantly looking up and Googling things, so I hit their targeted ads.

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So I see it's just really heavily trafficked.

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I feel like our money would go further through Google.

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Especially, too, if you said there's a lot of like bigger corporate corporations and franchises in the mix where they can dump a ton of money and you don't really want to compete with them on that.

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Well, and I knew that I wasn't going to be able to compete with them on that.

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You know, we're a small family of business and we've been doing this for for seven years now but still, like, our pockets nearly aren't as nearly as deep.

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As you know, the three big, big um like corporate franchises.

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So they, they have that big financial backing and they can spend more money on stuff like that.

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And I know, I know my company and I kind of know where we're going to hit, where we're going to miss, and I know that us trying to go toe-to-toe and, like you know, spending battle on marketing and advertising, that's just not where we're going to hit our sweet spot.

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Um, I'm pretty, I'm pretty frugal and like on, like a profit and loss statement, I know exactly where the money can go, where the thing I can stretch the furthest, because I've got a background in marketing.

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So I know, hey, if I focus over here versus over here, whether or not I'm already focusing, I can take that market share and that's going to give us a higher cost-benefit analysis versus dumping money into Facebook like everybody else is doing.

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Yeah, so it is interesting because I have a, a college degree.

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I did corporate america, I did like the big b2b sales, corporate sales, and it sounds like you have similar experience there.

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And then you made a jump as like, hey, I want to add a secondary stream of income here, I want to build a business and I'm leveraging like that corporate mindset.

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You said your your your degrees in marketing, right?

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You said yeah, business and marketing Business, and then yeah.

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Yeah, and then so, like you're aware of, like you're thinking more in depth than most of these like kind of blue collar, like tradesmen who may not have that experience, and then you're able to like kind of take what you know that works in corporate America and then apply that to your small business and it and it seems like that's probably something overlooked that a lot of guys in the trades don't necessarily know.

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They're so stuck in the like hey, I'm the technician, Like I do the greatest quality work, and they miss out on, like the big picture, the financial bones of the of of their business and like what to do.

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So, yeah, it's kind of like.

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It's kind of like in sports, you know, you can have a great football player who makes a really terrible coach and you can have a fantastic coach who is not a great football player and so sometimes and sometimes you hit it on both sides like you were a great player but you're also a great coach.

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But a lot of times, yeah, there's owner operators that are really good at what they do but they need a little bit of help, and some some like that's why you hire like a ceo or cofo and you handle, handle the operations and they handle the business side of it.

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Um yeah, but for us it was a little different.

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I had a really strong background in business.

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You know big business and you know I've done a lot of white collar corporate level stuff, that I had a ton of experience on these.

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You know multimillion dollar companies and I can do their finance and business and accounting process.

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Then I can easily manage my small business.

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It's the same principle, just a smaller scale.

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So I was really comfortable with doing the business side of it and I knew that I could do the technical side of it.

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So when it came time to put them both together, I was like, look, I've got this, I don't need to hire out, I can do this.

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And where I don't, where I miss a thing I can hire out for that, but for us we didn't have to hire out for the business side of it.

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Yeah, that's cool.

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Yeah, because I feel like, especially nowadays, like the trades are getting popular, you see these guys are like, oh, everybody is like BlackRock is investing in private equity firms, are investing in all these like small trades and like hvac companies or like they're they're doing so.

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So, like all a lot of these like owner-operated minded guys, they think, hey, I've, I've built this business.

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But if they're the only ones doing it, they've essentially like built themselves in a job.

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So like, yeah, that corporate mindset of like, hey, I need to like learn, learn enough of the information, learn enough of how to do the work and then delegate it down essentially and then kind of manage it and control expectations and that, that, that kind of, is what I see on guys like you, me.

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And then we even had Bob on the show the other day with, like, his engineering background where, like he's like, hey, I know the spreadsheets, I know how my business is supposed to flow.

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It's one of those deals where it's like, hey, we're focusing on building that business as opposed to being in the business.

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Yeah, there's a difference between working in the business and working on the business, and I was super guilty of that.

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I think you and I had a lot of conversations about this a couple years ago that I was like I'm hitting a wall Because I was doing so much of it and I was such a control freak.

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I wanted to handle the business, the marketing, the sales, the ordering, you know, the distribution, and then the booking of the jobs, the installation of the jobs, and I was overseeing every single point of it and we had great quality control because I was on top of everything.

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Let me turn that off.

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You got it.

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We had great quality control because I was able to put my fingers on every step of the process.

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Control because I was able to put my fingers on every step of the process.

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But then I realized very, very quickly that has, like you know what, if I am constantly doing all this stuff, I don't have time to actually grow it yeah and I was like I took a step back and I was like this is the maximum amount of jobs I could do at this pace because I'm not hiring out.

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When we were busy with gutter cleaning, gutter installs and, you know, crawlspace and insulation work, I was like I've got to put somebody over each business unit and try to free up some of my time and I can still work in them, but I'll be less involved, and so that's kind of where right now is I'm trying to take more steps back.

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Um, you know, we've hired basically a field supervisor or like an operations manager for each unit.

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So the crossway side has one, the installation side has one and then the gutter cleaning has like a manager and then the gutter install has a manager.

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So that's freedom of time for us and for me specifically, to take a step back and say, hey look, this is where we're hitting, this is where we're missing.

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And if you hire somebody, it's not going to be a perfect fit, nobody's going to care for your business the way that you do.

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But I think if you find somebody that you trust enough to run that side of the business and you train them well enough and you treat them well enough.

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They're going to continue to work with you.

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So we've been really fortunate to have had zero turnover on our higher level positions.

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On the lower side, on tech side, we've lost some guys, but on actual business managers, none of them have left.

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So right now we're, we're gonna, we're projecting pretty good numbers for 25.

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That's cool.

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Yeah, one of the.

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I've kind of noticed that too, because, like you and me, we both started out like owner operating it, doing it all, like that control freak, like, hey, our qualities is what's like selling everything, and that required us to think that we had to be like all hands on and like no delegation.

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And then we both kind of evolved past that stage where, like we've hired people, I've got a couple employees and trucks, and then we almost take more of like a managerial, like oversight viewpoint of things and I've noticed that like, yes, my techs may have errors here and there, say I got a new guy and they're not like up to speed with things, but as long as you're still like responsive to the customer and care, it seems as if people throw you more slack than if you're doing the work and you kind of did a shoddy job yeah, I, 100 agree.

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I feel like when you're burning the candle at both ends and doing every aspect of the business, even even if your level of care and your attention to detail is there, you're going to be so tired and burnt out that you're gonna miss things.

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Yeah, um, and I feel like it's harder to come back from that when you're the owner operator and you're making mistakes, versus, hey, this is a guy like a newer guy, he's training, here's what he did, it's a teaching moment.

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I'll you know, I'll address thanks for bringing it up or however it happened.

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I feel like there's a little bit more understanding, but also depends on how you approach it.

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But, yeah, 100 agree, I think with with you know, employees, you have a little bit more slack sometimes it's like almost like the customer like views you more credibly because you have a business with employees beneath you.

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Like I've had customers reach out hey look, I've.

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Uh, I noticed like this was missed here as they were pressure washing and like a spot was missed.

00:18:03.380 --> 00:18:06.016
And then they're like I don't want to get your guy in trouble, he was great, but here, like this was missed here as they were pressure washing and like a spot was missed.

00:18:06.016 --> 00:18:11.863
And then they're like I don't want to get your guy in trouble, he was great, but here, like this is the solution, as opposed to like in the past, if I would have missed a spot, they would have sent me a picture.

00:18:11.863 --> 00:18:12.968
They're like hey, man, you missed spot.

00:18:13.619 --> 00:18:15.425
Like, they're almost like framing it.

00:18:15.826 --> 00:18:29.717
They're almost framing it as like hey, I appreciate, like the guy doing a the work, so like I almost view it like it helps our brand and like our business be more of an authority.

00:18:29.717 --> 00:18:34.125
When customers like hold you to, like, okay, you got employees, you got guys, there's more understanding there than it was.

00:18:34.125 --> 00:18:38.704
Just like me doing everything, me burnt out, like that's gonna pass through on the customer.

00:18:38.704 --> 00:18:41.388
They're gonna be like oh, he's just too busy, like making all the money himself.

00:18:42.431 --> 00:18:45.194
Yeah, yeah, I 100% agree with that.

00:18:46.000 --> 00:19:01.423
That's just one thing I've noticed and, uh, it seems as, especially like with scaling and growth, like in the beginning I was like, oh, I can make X amount of money and then and then like I could work a little bit harder and then I could like cut my cut, like my expenses, and then I'm growing my profitability.

00:19:01.423 --> 00:19:13.298
But like scaling into multiple trucks and doing stuff like that, I was like, whoa, I can grow that revenue past what I could ever grow my revenue if it was just me doing the work and yeah, that was our biggest concern.

00:19:13.882 --> 00:19:28.045
is that taking a revenue hit Cause I was like, look, if we're not having to hire out all this help, you know our actual profit margin on jobs was greater, but the amount of jobs we were able to hit in a month or a quarter was significantly less.

00:19:28.045 --> 00:19:40.619
So you're like, if you just do a basic cost benefit analysis to bring somebody on to help ease up some of that time, and even if you just had, you know, 20% growth in jobs, you're going to make more money even if you're paying somebody.

00:19:40.619 --> 00:19:44.670
So that's kind of what we looked at and that's what it was very easy to say like.

00:19:44.670 --> 00:19:49.115
Once I looked at the numbers I was like, hey, look, we're losing money by putting me in charge of all of this stuff.

00:19:49.115 --> 00:19:55.894
I've got to take a step back, so we're not going to make any more money yeah, that's, that was definitely kind of like a pivotal thing.

00:19:55.913 --> 00:20:03.170
And then, and then just like being okay with buying your time back, it's like, hey, I, I like I'm able to do three things instead of just doing one thing.

00:20:03.170 --> 00:20:08.500
So like, do I want to do three things really well, or do I want to do one thing that I think is exceptionally well?

00:20:08.500 --> 00:20:26.782
But I'm really hamstringing myself and then I'm going to burn out, right, and it's kind of like the long-term approach that you and I have taken, as opposed to like, oh, I'm the I'm the best guy in town, I know like cause I'm doing everything?

00:20:26.803 --> 00:20:28.189
And I feel like that's, that's like the demise of a lot of these guys.

00:20:28.189 --> 00:20:37.920
I see where they hit it so hard and they're so strong for like four or five years and then they disappear and we we really haven't had a whole lot of pushback and there's a couple of guys that you won't really involved in the front of the process and it really just depends on who shows up to the initial conversation or consultation.

00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:46.223
It could be Tyler, it could be Nate or it could be myself, so, and I could be there from the beginning.

00:20:46.223 --> 00:20:49.376
It really just depends on on the scheduling, on who's on what side of town that day, um, but I only had one customer push back.

00:20:49.376 --> 00:20:50.942
He's like so who's actually doing the install?

00:20:51.002 --> 00:21:00.231
And I was like well, it's going to be overseen by you know my field supervisor and you know one of the install teams, um, but you know my lead tech is going to be there.

00:21:00.231 --> 00:21:01.961
So I have full confidence in all the videos.

00:21:01.961 --> 00:21:02.923
So I thought you were going to do it.

00:21:02.923 --> 00:21:05.809
I said, unfortunately, that's just not how this job works out now.

00:21:05.809 --> 00:21:17.175
Sometimes I'm I'm involved in stuff like after the hurricane, we were so busy on the roofing side, the gutter side and the foundation crossway side that I had to start doing actual install work because we were just so behind um.

00:21:17.175 --> 00:21:28.102
But right now, like I'm, I'm involved in stuff, but I'm not the one who's there he's doing all, all the work anymore Like I, just I not to sound arrogant, like I don't have the time to sit there and spend you know 10 hours on a crossface install anymore.

00:21:28.122 --> 00:21:30.067
It's just not how we're built Right.

00:21:30.067 --> 00:21:33.020
But I only want my first pushback, like everything else they'll.

00:21:33.020 --> 00:21:34.163
They get it, you know.

00:21:34.163 --> 00:21:35.703
Like that's not how business is done, you don't?

00:21:35.703 --> 00:21:36.525
You know?

00:21:36.525 --> 00:21:47.400
Funny, because they use the expression of like a small business owner makes one mistake and their brand is tarnished.

00:21:47.460 --> 00:21:50.865
But then you go to McDonald's and they can never get your order right and you still keep going back to McDonald's.

00:21:50.865 --> 00:21:59.172
It's like it's like they understand that McDonald's is a big organization and like it's run efficiently on a high level, but like you're going to run into issues on the low level.

00:21:59.172 --> 00:22:07.827
So why are people people holding us as like say you're an owner operator, like oh, this guy's terrible, he's out of I'm.

00:22:07.827 --> 00:22:14.740
It's like to me, like having those employees almost buffer you and like if you can step in as the boss and you can step in and say, hey, look, this is I'm the owner of this business, these are my guys.

00:22:14.740 --> 00:22:16.768
Like and approach the situation correctly.

00:22:16.768 --> 00:22:25.500
It seems almost as there's more value in like your brand itself than if it was just you doing all this stuff like, yeah, I actually I love that comparison to mcdonald's.

00:22:25.682 --> 00:22:45.153
I 100 agree, I also, I think not a power move, probably not the best, the best way to phrase it, but like, yeah, if one of your guys makes a mistake and it automatically gets escalated to you, the owner, I'm like, okay, you know what, there's a mistake, but now the owner is talking to me to fix it, I feel like it's a better look than than you making a mistake and fixing it yourself.

00:22:45.153 --> 00:22:49.171
But so if one of your guys makes a mistake and you come in and like, own it, take accountability.

00:22:49.171 --> 00:22:59.750
So like there's guys that for us that have made plenty of mistakes on stuff and we're super big on accountability and the last thing I'm going to do is make my guys look bad in front of a homeowner.

00:22:59.750 --> 00:23:01.721
Like I'm going to sit in front of them and we're going to address it.

00:23:01.721 --> 00:23:03.144
I, I'm going to sit in front of them and we're going to address it.

00:23:03.163 --> 00:23:03.884
I'm not going to, you know, run you.

00:23:03.884 --> 00:23:05.405
I'm not going to rake you with the calls, but I'm also not going to.

00:23:05.405 --> 00:23:08.170
You know, I'm not going to bash them in front of the homeowner.

00:23:08.170 --> 00:23:09.070
I think that's what helps.

00:23:09.070 --> 00:23:10.372
You know, I think it's a bad.

00:23:10.372 --> 00:23:23.226
Look, if no guy makes a mistake and you come down like yeah, he's awful, he does this, this, that like, okay, well, you treat it that's true, I think too, like everybody remembers.

00:23:23.246 --> 00:23:26.890
Like you have a bad job in corporate america and your boss throws you under the bus, like yeah.

00:23:26.890 --> 00:23:33.281
And then, like you're saying, you're like you're lowering your value as a company and you're like, wait, so if you say this guy's horrible, why do you employ him?

00:23:33.281 --> 00:23:35.348
Why is he a representation of your company?

00:23:35.348 --> 00:23:37.758
Like yeah, so yeah, it's.

00:23:37.758 --> 00:23:40.242
It's yeah, mistakes happen, stuff like that.

00:23:40.242 --> 00:23:46.791
But it's like you got to step up as a boss and represent your, your company, represent your brand, and not just be like, well, I'm the boss he sucks.

00:23:46.791 --> 00:23:55.602
Like get out of the way, which I feel like that could be how people do things nowadays, who aren't really the best minded for leadership positions.

00:23:55.602 --> 00:24:06.108
Or it's like the difference between a manager and a leader and like, yeah, we both have corporate american experience and some people have just been in a position for five years plus and therefore they're deemed a manager, but they're not worthy of that title.

00:24:07.230 --> 00:24:14.292
Yeah, Um yeah, I agree, it's just it's not a, there's not a one size fits all approach to it.

00:24:14.734 --> 00:24:25.451
Um, I think there's definitely a lot of trial and error when you're trying to hire somebody because it's, it's a fit for you, um, and we view everything as a partnership, uh, even, like, when it comes to our employees.

00:24:25.451 --> 00:24:28.006
Like it's, everything is based on a partnership.

00:24:28.006 --> 00:24:29.288
It needs to be mutually beneficial.

00:24:29.288 --> 00:24:30.519
But what if it's not?

00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:37.083
If it's working for me but it doesn't work for them, okay, then we need to talk about okay, so what, where are we hitting and where are we missing?

00:24:37.083 --> 00:24:39.247
And you know why is this not a good fit for you?

00:24:39.247 --> 00:24:40.268
Like, what could we do better?

00:24:40.268 --> 00:24:47.105
Because, at the end of the day day, if I don't have people on my team that I can trust, then we're not going to be able to get anything done.

00:24:47.105 --> 00:24:51.605
So it's a pretty easy second step for us to turn around and say, hey, look, this is.

00:24:51.605 --> 00:24:55.942
You know where we're going to go from here and we're, we're pretty good with our feedback, with our team.

00:24:55.942 --> 00:24:57.246
Yeah, just for that reason.

00:24:57.567 --> 00:25:07.496
Typically, so, like you, we both kind of like we've, we've steered this into, like, okay, we built the business, we got our branding, we have plenty of leads coming in and then like, how?

00:25:07.496 --> 00:25:07.777
Like?

00:25:07.777 --> 00:25:10.023
It's almost like an operations focused podcast here.

00:25:10.023 --> 00:25:13.922
We're both talking about like, all right, we've evolved from that owner operator stage to, like the owner stage.

00:25:13.922 --> 00:25:23.006
Essentially, how do you hire and like, do you create a culture which I would loop it into like hey, brand up, it's like that's a representation of your brand and your company.

00:25:23.006 --> 00:25:25.890
So, like, what criteria do you have when you hire people?

00:25:25.890 --> 00:25:30.103
What, what, uh, emotion and stuff are you trying to have in your team?

00:25:30.103 --> 00:25:45.932
And then, how they interact with customers, to like give that customer experience because, like, customer experience is a huge aspect of of your brand and of your business so a lot of our employees, uh, specifically the guys that are in like management positions, they're former military.

00:25:46.500 --> 00:25:57.404
So Nate, who runs our the crawl space side, he's a former combat Marine, um, and then I've got some other guys that were, you know, army air force.

00:25:57.404 --> 00:26:07.971
I think the only person I don't have is a coast guard, um, but we've had really good success hiring military guys just because they're very disciplined and diligent in that working aspect of it.

00:26:07.971 --> 00:26:15.151
But for the most part they're all very coachable and they understand accountability.

00:26:15.151 --> 00:26:17.106
But for me accountability works both ways.

00:26:17.106 --> 00:26:20.209
I can't hold you accountable if you can't hold me accountable.

00:26:20.209 --> 00:26:32.803
So it's a two-way street for us that I want to be able to say hey look, I'm very approachable, but also I'm going to call you out when you're wrong, but I'm going to do it the right way, but in return, if I do something wrong, I want you to call me out just the same, but we're going to do it respectfully.

00:26:32.883 --> 00:26:34.790
So that's really how we approach things.

00:26:34.790 --> 00:26:43.568
Um, and there's been some people that we brought on that just didn't work and they've kind of fizzled out for whatever reason, whether they didn't like to do the work or I just didn't like how they interacted with customers.

00:26:43.568 --> 00:26:46.192
Um, there's definitely been people we've let go.

00:26:46.192 --> 00:26:49.236
Um, just, it goes back to accountability.

00:26:49.236 --> 00:27:00.066
Like if you say you're going to do one thing and you don't do it, and when I check you on it and you double down and try to say like no, I did this, like when I've got absolute proof that you didn't do it, then we're done like we're not going to do that.

00:27:00.066 --> 00:27:03.453
Um, and I'll give second chances if they're due.

00:27:03.453 --> 00:27:18.301
But you know, if I, you know, try to check something on something and they double down like no, this is how we did it and this is correct, and I've got, you know photo, you know photo, evidence of how something was left, and like we're gonna, we're gonna revisit this, and if I don't like how the conversation goes, then we're just gonna call it quits.

00:27:18.883 --> 00:27:19.664
I think, um, I don't.

00:27:19.664 --> 00:27:21.328
There's a lot of people talk about you know, hiring, hiring slow and firing fast.

00:27:21.328 --> 00:27:21.630
I don't really.

00:27:21.630 --> 00:27:24.916
There's a lot of people talk about you know, hiring, hiring slow and firing fast.

00:27:24.916 --> 00:27:26.119
I don't really love that.

00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:32.642
I think every, every person deserves enough chances, depending on the situation, like depending on how you handle things.

00:27:32.642 --> 00:27:39.339
Um, really speaks volumes to me versus you know, I don't care if you made a mistake, it's how you deal with the mistake.

00:27:39.339 --> 00:27:43.621
Like, if you make a mistake and you own it and you try to to rectify it before it becomes an issue.

00:27:43.621 --> 00:27:45.984
I, I have so much respect for that.

00:27:45.984 --> 00:27:50.203
Versus somebody who makes a mistake and tries to double down like no, that wasn't us yeah, 100.

00:27:50.826 --> 00:27:51.929
And our world too.

00:27:51.929 --> 00:27:52.289
It's like.

00:27:52.289 --> 00:27:56.321
Machines have issues, jobs can be more difficult than normal.

00:27:56.321 --> 00:27:57.945
People could be difficult.

00:27:57.945 --> 00:28:02.084
It's like you're gonna run into diverse or you're gonna run into like issues all day long.

00:28:02.084 --> 00:28:13.127
How are you managing like your emotions and how are you like dealing with problems and solving problems without having to call me and you're able to do it with the customer and you're able to do it like kind of with a smile on your face.

00:28:13.782 --> 00:28:17.785
Like every day there's going to be something that goes wrong in our business and it's probably same with yours.

00:28:17.785 --> 00:28:21.909
And like you got to find somebody who's not going to oh I'm wrong.

00:28:21.909 --> 00:28:25.874
Like and get poo-poo about it or not take ownership of it and just move forward and understand.

00:28:25.874 --> 00:28:28.296
Like hey, look like the objective is to go forward.

00:28:28.296 --> 00:28:32.106
Like I need you to row the boat forward with me and I'm not gonna be on the jobs with you.

00:28:32.106 --> 00:28:34.723
You're gonna have to come up with like solutions to this on your own.

00:28:35.140 --> 00:28:48.815
And then, like you were saying something about like you like the idea of have a partnership and, hey, you make money of a percent of revenue.

00:28:48.815 --> 00:29:06.270
So the more money we make, the more efficiently we can be, the more money's in your pocket and it's one of those things too, that like they take a sense of ownership and pride of that and they're not just saying, oh I'm tips, you get a nice percentage of revenue of production.

00:29:06.270 --> 00:29:09.993
So therefore, like it's going to require that certain personality.

00:29:09.993 --> 00:29:13.997
Who's going to want that role, as opposed to somebody who's lazy, who's just going to milk the clock.

00:29:20.019 --> 00:29:31.166
Like I try to really weed out people who are lazy and not wanting to like almost be like an entrepreneur themselves and like you want to almost view these businesses like, hey, I want, I want to like mentor somebody who's not aware of this type of business and then like get them up to speed, almost to like create their own business.

00:29:31.166 --> 00:29:47.326
Um, and I'm like hey, I want to like load you with all the information that I have on what I'm doing, and then, if you want to take ownership and do your own thing, that's one thing, but, like, while you're working with me, you're going to have to like your own ownership mindset and you're going to have that sense of pride as like, hey, we're all in this together, as opposed to me.

00:29:47.326 --> 00:29:52.267
Like talking down to you and like, oh, this is all your fault, that's like, that's like a no-go at my place.

00:29:52.267 --> 00:29:56.480
So it's like, hey, if, if that's how you are here, you don't fit in and you probably should find another job.

00:29:57.642 --> 00:29:59.343
Yeah, and it's.

00:29:59.343 --> 00:30:02.164
It's pretty apparent when somebody's not going to fit in.

00:30:02.164 --> 00:30:07.749
I think for us we're very upfront with stuff.

00:30:07.749 --> 00:30:16.295
I think what makes my relationship with the guys work is that there's nothing that I'm going to ask them to do that I haven't already done.

00:30:16.295 --> 00:30:20.218
I've done everything in the crawl space side, everything on the gutter side, on the roofing side.

00:30:20.557 --> 00:30:36.017
There's nothing that I'm going to ask you to do that I won't do, or that I still that I haven't done, or that I won't go out there and do now, like when we were short, like I was in the crawl space pulling out insulation, you know, putting in poly tape and seams, you know digging trenches for french drains and you know I'm, you know, carrying stuff out to the dumpster, like.

00:30:36.037 --> 00:30:40.365
So there's nothing that I'm going to ask you to do, for then you know that I wouldn't do.

00:30:40.365 --> 00:30:41.205
So I feel like it.

00:30:41.205 --> 00:30:48.602
It looks better for me that I'm not just going to sit in the office and bark orders at them to go do, because I understand that like nothing that we do is glorious.

00:30:48.602 --> 00:30:54.810
We work under houses or on top of them, like it's either hot and you know hot and sweaty on top of the house, or you're out in the elements.

00:30:54.810 --> 00:31:02.371
So you're you're freezing off, hanging off a ladder, or you're you know disgusting crawlspace, you know pulling out old insulation or you know moldy.

00:31:02.371 --> 00:31:09.607
So nothing that we do is pretty, but I'm not going to ask you to do something that I won't do myself, and I feel like that goes back to the accountability point for us.

00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:17.250
Yeah, and and to, like you said, my business, your business, they're not really like pretty businesses, it's almost like dirty jobs.

00:31:18.201 --> 00:31:30.375
And like we're creating that culture which is like your brand and that's attracting your customers to you and that's attracting your customers to you and that's also attracting your employees to you.

00:31:30.287 --> 00:31:33.135
So it's, I think, like that transparency of your user experience, your customer experience and like your employee experience is all that same energy.

00:31:33.135 --> 00:31:41.023
And then once you create like an alignment there, like everybody's working together and you have a great company, because like, yeah, you're fighting raccoons and snakes in somebody's crawl space.

00:31:41.023 --> 00:31:42.165
That's not really something.

00:31:42.165 --> 00:31:46.141
You're seeing somebody like knock on your door to say, oh, I want to do that.

00:31:46.141 --> 00:32:13.369
But if you create that culture behind yourself and they want to work for you and they're like excited about like hey, we get a new experience, a new customer, a new house, like that's something that like if you guys are on that same wavelength and level, then they're going to have a sense of pride in it and it's going to help you grow your business and it's going to be an enjoyable working experience for them yeah, we try to make it as fun as possible and obviously I can try to motivate people with my words as much as I want to, but at the end of the day, people are ultimately motivated by financial gain.

00:32:13.549 --> 00:32:20.443
So we have it structured to if you aren't here for the right reasons, you're not going to be successful.

00:32:20.443 --> 00:32:24.539
If you're here to ride the clock and just get a paycheck, this isn't the place for you.

00:32:24.539 --> 00:32:26.237
You're going to make so much more money anywhere else.

00:32:26.237 --> 00:32:36.212
But if you come here and you work hard and you do what you're supposed to, we have a pretty good incentive structure for the guys like, look, if you have x amount of jobs scheduled and you get them done before time, then there's a bonus.

00:32:36.212 --> 00:32:44.333
Or if we allot, you know, 12 hours for a crawlspace and they're done in nine, then hey, look, you're making more money than you would have.

00:32:44.333 --> 00:32:47.237
So you like, you're gonna work faster, you're gonna make more money.

00:32:47.356 --> 00:32:52.364
Now, if you work faster and the job's not complete, okay, then we're gonna talk about.

00:32:52.364 --> 00:32:56.036
Okay, here's what, here's what you did, here's what you should have done.

00:32:56.036 --> 00:32:57.422
So it's all coaching moments.

00:32:57.422 --> 00:33:00.473
But yeah, I feel like motivating them financially.

00:33:00.473 --> 00:33:06.313
By the way that we do, our payout structure makes us have a little bit more leeway and, uh, you know people riding the clock.

00:33:06.313 --> 00:33:12.763
We definitely had a fair share of guys that done that, but they, they did not stick around very long yeah, that's, and that's kind of the same deal as us.

00:33:12.804 --> 00:33:15.375
Like, I will compensate based upon revenue.

00:33:15.375 --> 00:33:18.412
So say, like weekly revenue, you get a certain percentage of that.

00:33:18.412 --> 00:33:23.872
As opposed to like, oh, you're gonna make more money if you mess up a job and you're going back and I'm still paying you your hourly rate.

00:33:23.872 --> 00:33:30.644
I was like, hey, you're gonna go out and fix that on the dime that you're already paid, because you're paid based upon the percentage of job completion.

00:33:30.644 --> 00:33:36.021
And it's like, hey, if you want to work six days a week in our busy season, you're going to make really good money.

00:33:36.021 --> 00:33:41.010
Or if you want to dial it back and work four days a week or three days a week, you'll make a.

00:33:41.010 --> 00:33:42.858
You'll make that same fair percentage.

00:33:42.858 --> 00:33:44.454
It just might not be worth your time.

00:33:45.318 --> 00:33:45.499
Yeah.

00:33:50.549 --> 00:33:51.548
So, yeah, worth your time, yeah, so yeah, it's, it's definitely.

00:33:51.548 --> 00:33:51.848
Uh, it's funny.

00:33:51.848 --> 00:33:53.144
In the beginning it's like, oh, how do I get business, how do I get business?

00:33:53.144 --> 00:34:03.000
And then, when you get the business in, you almost have to like, allow your company to have more space and improve your operations and hire out and scale so you can allow all that business to flow through.

00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:07.476
And I think it's overlooked because people think, oh, like marketing, marketing, marketing.

00:34:07.476 --> 00:34:12.572
But once you get to a certain size, if you don't have the operations to support that marketing, you're never going to grow past a certain point.

00:34:13.514 --> 00:34:15.971
Yeah, getting the business is great, but you still got to be able to get out there and do it.

00:34:16.291 --> 00:34:25.023
And I, yeah, and I remember like starting I shifted my marketing from like oh, Matt, the driveway guy, me doing all the work, to then having like the focuses on my employees, the multiple trucks.

00:34:25.023 --> 00:34:27.204
And then we started attracting bigger projects.

00:34:27.204 --> 00:34:28.425
We started getting commercial calls.

00:34:28.425 --> 00:34:35.199
We had guys who were like, oh, you do commercial now you can do a hotel, you can do like 100,000 square foot industrial building.

00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:42.440
Like more opportunities, larger opportunities came to us once we were showcasing like hey, I got another truck here.

00:34:42.440 --> 00:34:44.436
I essentially like I build it and then it came.

00:34:44.436 --> 00:34:49.923
It's like that expression Like if you build it, they come it's almost like a true thing, it's like investing in your operations.

00:34:49.983 --> 00:34:57.311
Is that next step, after investing your marketing and branding and then, like, your brand shifts to be more legitimate, to be a bigger operation and you get bigger tickets?

00:34:58.355 --> 00:34:59.737
yeah, yeah, definitely.

00:34:59.737 --> 00:35:17.902
You have to have like a like wide angle lenses, because if you become super hyper focused on one thing, that specific issue or spot might be great, but if you're not stepping back and really taking a look at what is next or thinking one or two steps ahead, I think you kind of get stuck in that rut.

00:35:17.902 --> 00:35:31.701
So if you're really hyper-focused on marketing and you get 10, 20, 30 new leads but you don't have the bandwidth or the infrastructure to go out there and get them scheduled and completed in a timely manner, then you're just going to lose them.

00:35:31.701 --> 00:35:37.818
Like, hey, you know, we called Matt or we called Trevor to come do this and you know, two months went by and he never called us back.

00:35:37.818 --> 00:35:39.054
So we just called somebody else.

00:35:39.054 --> 00:35:40.931
So it's great to get them in there, but you still got.

00:35:40.972 --> 00:35:54.512
you know, casting a net, catching all those fish is great but you've got to be a way to process what you're, what you're doing, and it is I like I've noticed that too, like especially in in my space, you see, like the owner operator, mind you, oh, I'm.

00:35:54.512 --> 00:35:56.001
It's like they wear it as a badge of honor.

00:35:56.001 --> 00:35:57.248
They're like I'm two months booked out.

00:35:57.248 --> 00:35:58.693
I'm like, first off, you're probably not.

00:35:58.693 --> 00:36:01.099
Second of all, those people aren't going to call you back.

00:36:01.099 --> 00:36:05.737
Like we notice in our business, if our operations are like more than two weeks out, we're losing those.

00:36:05.737 --> 00:36:08.222
We're losing those booked appointments.

00:36:08.222 --> 00:36:09.503
Probably 50% of the time.

00:36:09.869 --> 00:36:18.949
Somebody's going to be like oh, I called somebody else, they can fit me in, they'll be like yeah put me on the schedule and then they're going to go back and search it and they're going to see hey, who can I find that's going to backfill this faster.

00:36:18.949 --> 00:36:29.896
So by working on that infrastructure, building up our operations, we're able to hammer much more and provide more value to these customers, because we're not booked out a month, two months, three months.

00:36:30.958 --> 00:36:31.617
Yeah.

00:36:31.657 --> 00:36:37.161
I feel like that's one of the first questions we get asked, like when a customer calls us is like, hey, how far out are you guys?

00:36:37.161 --> 00:36:44.766
And generally we're about two weeks out on just about everything, unless there's no specific issue or if it's like blown in insulation.

00:36:44.766 --> 00:36:56.103
Sometimes that's a little bit further, but for the most part we're about two weeks out on everything and sometimes we can even get people same day and that blows their mind.

00:36:56.103 --> 00:37:02.532
I had a lead from you a couple of weeks ago that we were able to get them scheduled and completed within a day and he was like I was really shocked because everybody else was like two and three weeks out.

00:37:02.532 --> 00:37:04.317
I was like we were in the neighborhood today.

00:37:04.777 --> 00:37:05.961
Yeah, and that's the thing.

00:37:05.961 --> 00:37:13.875
You have multiple trucks, you have multiple people out there.

00:37:13.875 --> 00:37:14.518
You could say, hey, call your guy.

00:37:14.518 --> 00:37:15.320
We want to squeeze another job in today.

00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:17.188
You want to make a little bit extra money, like we have the resources to be able to do this.

00:37:17.208 --> 00:37:17.630
Yeah, yeah, that's.

00:37:17.630 --> 00:37:19.438
That's where that is a win.

00:37:19.438 --> 00:37:25.300
Um, and sometimes it's hard to see it on the balance sheet to have that many trucks, but when you can do that, it's such a huge asset.

00:37:25.780 --> 00:37:26.481
Yeah, that's.

00:37:26.481 --> 00:37:31.085
I think that was a huge thing for me too, cause, like you said, you think, oh, how am I going to afford this?

00:37:31.085 --> 00:37:38.998
Because you're only thinking with that limited lens of one truck, me doing all the work, and then it almost takes, like you said, the wide lens to all right.

00:37:38.998 --> 00:38:01.041
I don't know where this is going, but like I'm just allowing myself to essentially like catch more fish, have a bigger net, and then it seems as if, like it net, and then it seems as if, like it will fill it up, like entropy or something where, like you're, you're allowing more to come to you than if you're just like I'm super fixated on this one one little thing and you get like almost a shiny object syndrome with stuff and you're not able to accept a lot of a lot more.

00:38:01.041 --> 00:38:10.083
Like scaling the business, growing, having more trucks, like you're getting multiple trucks on the road, you're getting more customer contact points, you getting more referrals, it's like you're.

00:38:10.704 --> 00:38:23.362
There's a lot of things that go into it besides like, oh my, one marketing thing it's like hey, you're at the gas station with three trucks somebody's gonna call you versus that one guy in one truck yeah, absolutely so that curve of you right.

00:38:23.362 --> 00:38:25.992
So I guess is there anything you'd like to talk about here.

00:38:25.992 --> 00:38:28.195
Uh, we're at like 38 minutes.

00:38:35.914 --> 00:38:39.101
I'm trying to think of other talking points.

00:38:39.101 --> 00:38:40.423
I think so when we got started.

00:38:40.423 --> 00:39:00.791
I know the barrier to enter thing was one of the most difficult hills to get over because there wasn't a whole lot of competition in the upstate for us for what we did, specifically just because the awareness for, like, crossway science and crosswise health really just wasn't there it was out there, but it wasn't as prevalent as it is like today.

00:39:01.813 --> 00:39:08.634
Um, so we focused on being cheaper than everybody else and that is such a terrible model to grow a business.

00:39:08.634 --> 00:39:18.458
It's fine to start right, but very quickly you have to, okay, like you can be the cheaper guy, but that's only going to get you so far and then you're going to get to a point where you hit that wall.

00:39:18.458 --> 00:39:38.376
Um, so I think, refiguring our business model, after we started getting a couple jobs and getting our name out there and what's, our brand awareness caught back up like, okay, you know what, now we have enough reputation that we can set our prices to the point that we're not going to get rich off of one job, but it's going to get us in business and help, you know, fund the company to continue to grow.

00:39:38.376 --> 00:39:57.396
And that's kind of where we were, that's kind of where we're at, and so, and now we can kind of coast off of that and we get pretty consistent phone calls and, and you know, especially on facebook, we get our name gets, you know, shouted out for just about everything that we do and I love it.

00:39:57.396 --> 00:40:01.994
And there's 90 percent time it's, you know, homeowners and customers we work with before that are still out there.

00:40:01.994 --> 00:40:04.681
Um, you know, throwing our name out there.

00:40:04.722 --> 00:40:07.315
For you know, for the gutter side we have repeat business.

00:40:07.315 --> 00:40:12.711
You know we do a lot of our customers, you know, once or twice a year and we have very low turnover on that side of it.

00:40:12.711 --> 00:40:19.179
But for the crossway side, you know, once you install a crossways, you know other than basic maintenance like you don't have them as a customer to get like.

00:40:19.179 --> 00:40:37.722
If you do it right the first time, there's zero reason for you to have those customers and homeowners continue to recommend us on Facebook to me means the world, because we've only dealt with you one time for maybe one or two weeks and then that was it.

00:40:37.722 --> 00:40:44.416
And you've made enough of a lasting reputation for them that they're going to tell their friends and family and neighbors.

00:40:44.416 --> 00:40:47.717
Or if they see a post on Facebook hey, does anyone know a crawlspace company?

00:40:47.717 --> 00:40:50.514
They're more willing to shout that out.

00:40:50.514 --> 00:40:58.282
So for us, shifting to focusing on our image versus rather than the bottom dollar has helped us continue to grow.

00:40:58.282 --> 00:41:00.594
You know now, seven years later, that's awesome.

00:41:01.096 --> 00:41:05.393
I'm going to flip our screens to vertical so we can make some kind of like reels here.

00:41:05.393 --> 00:41:06.376
That way it looks better.

00:41:06.376 --> 00:41:14.061
Better on instagram and then I would say to your point too, like when you shift, like, because in the beginning everybody's like oh, the 99 guy it's.

00:41:14.240 --> 00:41:17.925
It's funny in the pressure washing space it's like, oh, I'll do everything for 100 bucks, just let me do it.

00:41:17.925 --> 00:41:28.719
You're almost attracting a bad customer like you're attracting that bottom, that bottom feeder, low, low value customer, where they're like, hey, I'm gonna nitpick you to death because I don't want to spend a hundred bucks.

00:41:29.900 --> 00:41:43.211
Yeah, I refuse to get into bidding wars and when I first started I was so hyper-focused on being more cost-effective than my competition and I would allow myself to get kind of stuck in that rat race.

00:41:43.211 --> 00:41:44.635
The homeowner would come back.

00:41:44.635 --> 00:41:45.998
I'm like, hey, look, this other company.

00:41:45.998 --> 00:41:49.583
They said that they can do this for eighteen hundred dollars.

00:41:49.583 --> 00:41:50.405
Can you do 17?

00:41:50.405 --> 00:41:51.286
And I haven't.

00:41:51.286 --> 00:41:58.614
Now I have no desire to do that, but before I would do that and I would take massive hits on our profit and loss statement and we're doing these jobs for for next to nothing.

00:41:58.793 --> 00:42:04.092
And the homeowner's winning um, right, my company's not winning, the other company's not winning um.

00:42:04.092 --> 00:42:07.036
And so, yeah, there's plenty of companies that we're in competition with.

00:42:07.036 --> 00:42:17.481
But at this point now and I'm very upfront with homeowners now I'll say, hey look, I'm not the cheapest, I'm not the most expensive, but I can just about guarantee I'm going to be the most honest contractor you've ever talked to.

00:42:17.481 --> 00:42:29.905
We're going to be very upfront about everything that is and isn't wrong with your crawlspace and things that you can do now and things that you need to do now or things that you can wait on, because the last thing I want to do is tell you, hey, this is what is wrong with the crawl face.

00:42:29.905 --> 00:42:30.846
It's going to cost this much.

00:42:30.846 --> 00:42:34.407
And then you call have another company and have them come out and be like no, that's absolutely wrong.

00:42:34.407 --> 00:42:39.579
This and this and this can wait, and I don't want to be that guy, so I'm not trying to, you know.

00:42:39.699 --> 00:42:42.172
You know, make myself rich off of one single project.

00:42:42.172 --> 00:42:46.119
We're here to make enough money off of one project and so that way my company wins.

00:42:46.119 --> 00:42:49.664
But we're here to solve your problem, but also not price gouge you, so that way you're still winning.

00:42:49.664 --> 00:42:52.172
We view everything like I said.

00:42:52.172 --> 00:42:55.101
We go back to how we hire employees.

00:42:55.101 --> 00:42:57.739
Everything for us is viewed as a partnership.

00:42:57.739 --> 00:43:00.318
My relationship with the homeowner is still a partnership.

00:43:00.318 --> 00:43:08.695
You're contracting us to do a job and solve a problem for you and at the end of the day, if I haven't solved that problem and you pay me a ton of money for it, then I failed you.

00:43:08.695 --> 00:43:18.405
So that's where we focus now on is hey look, we're going to solve your problem and we're going to try to do it in a cost-effective manner, but at the end of the day, we're still a business.

00:43:18.405 --> 00:43:19.146
We've got to make money.

00:43:31.130 --> 00:43:34.766
But I don't get bidding wars, like if they come back and you, hey, if you can beat this other company at a thousand dollars, you get the job.

00:43:34.766 --> 00:43:38.960
Well, I'm sure the other company isn't the same value as you or me.

00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:45.916
So if, if they were the same or better value and they cut your cost by a thousand bucks, why are they even calling me back?

00:43:45.916 --> 00:43:48.260
And that's, that's one of those reframes.

00:43:48.260 --> 00:43:53.123
It's like, hey, mr customer, like if, if, a thousand dollars the difference between me and them.

00:43:53.123 --> 00:43:58.047
Obviously you see more value in me because there's a thousand dollars that you have to pay more.

00:43:58.047 --> 00:44:00.695
And you're still considering me in this equation like you would.

00:44:00.695 --> 00:44:04.911
You would just go with this guy if he sold you at a cheaper price point right.

00:44:04.971 --> 00:44:12.795
Well, and I've had people that have framed it exactly like hey look, we look, we really like you, we like your company, we like what you said, but they're so much cheaper, and so that's you know.

00:44:12.795 --> 00:44:13.835
I'll go back to the look.

00:44:13.835 --> 00:44:20.277
If I I've given you our best price, if I could cut $1,000 off the price, that means I was lying to you from the beginning.

00:44:20.277 --> 00:44:20.898
That means I can.

00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:24.980
I literally padded my margins $1,000 extra than I should have, than I should have.

00:44:24.980 --> 00:44:27.521
So to me I was like one.

00:44:27.521 --> 00:44:28.021
I can't do that.

00:44:28.021 --> 00:44:35.545
And if any company can legitimately come to you and say, hey, I could beat them by $1,000, they were price gouging you from the beginning and we don't do that.

00:44:35.545 --> 00:44:38.567
We've never done that and our price model is set up so that way.

00:44:39.106 --> 00:44:41.648
My techs don't go out there and upsell stuff.

00:44:41.648 --> 00:44:45.331
We sell things for the most part at cost.

00:44:45.331 --> 00:44:48.416
If a dehumidifier costs us $1,000, we sell it for $1,000.

00:44:48.416 --> 00:44:59.581
Now we charge to install the material, but we don't make any extra money on selling a 90-pint dehumidifier versus a 70-pint dehumidifier, and I wanted to control that from the beginning.

00:44:59.730 --> 00:45:14.001
So when I went back to my guys look, there's zero incentive for anybody here to upsell any material that a homeowner does not need, because if you sell a 70-p 90 pint, what you make is you make zero more dollars like it's.

00:45:14.001 --> 00:45:14.623
So it costs.

00:45:14.623 --> 00:45:17.677
So we're spending more money but we're not making more money.

00:45:17.677 --> 00:45:20.612
You know, if they need 90 pint, they need the 90 pint.

00:45:20.612 --> 00:45:30.873
But I'm not going to sell, you know, a 20 mil vapor barrier versus a 12 mil vapor just because it's a higher cost because there's no reason for them to upsell materials unless it's absolutely necessary.

00:45:31.393 --> 00:45:47.016
So I think for us that's another one of the places where we really see that we're beating these competitions because they're upcharging for materials and we can come in and not we're still winning the cost battle on certain aspects just because there's no incentive for us to sell something that doesn't need to be sold.

00:45:47.016 --> 00:45:47.215
Now.

00:45:47.215 --> 00:45:50.000
There's definitely companies out there that do similar products.

00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:57.757
So, like you know, to a similar type work to us, they might be cheaper than us, but they may not have the same overhead yeah but the same thing with us and the big three.

00:45:58.420 --> 00:45:59.867
Um, you know, corporate companies.

00:45:59.867 --> 00:46:02.882
Like they have a higher overhead, I'm usually cheaper than them because they have more.

00:46:02.882 --> 00:46:03.806
They have more cost.

00:46:03.806 --> 00:46:05.773
Their operating cost is substantially higher than us.

00:46:06.153 --> 00:46:07.896
Yeah, 100 yeah, 100% yeah.

00:46:07.896 --> 00:46:16.478
And two, like you said, it's almost like a trustworthy factor If you're overcharging somebody for a thousand bucks and they say, hey, if you can take a thousand bucks off, I'll do the job today.

00:46:16.478 --> 00:46:18.936
There's like an incongruence there.

00:46:18.936 --> 00:46:23.672
You're like I'm starting this relationship off with a breach of trust, Like you told me.

00:46:23.693 --> 00:46:24.456
This is what you can do.

00:46:32.289 --> 00:46:33.172
And then you said, oh, I got a thousand dollars left.

00:46:33.172 --> 00:46:33.862
I'd be like what else you got left in this pot.

00:46:33.862 --> 00:46:38.844
It's almost like you're opening the door for are you gonna bait and switch me on something like like it's usually not apples to apples too, when, when somebody has a competitor quote.

00:46:38.864 --> 00:46:41.288
Well, and that's usually if they're really concerned about it.

00:46:41.288 --> 00:46:42.871
I'll say like, let's unpack this.

00:46:42.871 --> 00:46:44.753
Here's what I offered and here's how I offered it.

00:46:44.753 --> 00:46:45.576
What are they offering?

00:46:45.596 --> 00:47:04.304
That's different, because, because for them to be $1,000 cheaper than us, something is not there, yes, and then usually we can figure it out by that and sometimes, if they're genuinely motivated by cost, if they don't answer, they'll say hey, look, we had a call the other day for gutters and she's like hey, we had two or three other companies and they were cheaper than you, so we're going to go with somebody else we're going to use.

00:47:04.304 --> 00:47:05.429
You know we're going to go with somebody else.

00:47:05.429 --> 00:47:08.440
Okay, that's fine.

00:47:08.440 --> 00:47:24.255
And you know, for gutters there's really not a whole lot of wiggle room there as long as they're doing seamless gutters for the most part, you know it's all the same, like we have a warranty and we have stuff like that and I know our quality of work and we stand behind it.

00:47:24.255 --> 00:47:33.396
But you know, if somebody's genuinely motivated by cost, it's really hard to kind of dig yourself out of that hole and I just think it's save yourself the trouble and just don't get into a bidding war with a homeowner in another company.

00:47:33.396 --> 00:47:35.034
It just it's a lose-lose for everybody.

00:47:35.476 --> 00:47:48.202
Yeah, and I've noticed too like people think, oh, I won that job, like, oh, I won, we're gonna make this much money, and then you get to that job that took you two weeks You're like whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:47:48.202 --> 00:47:49.443
This isn't adding up for me.

00:47:50.224 --> 00:47:51.894
Yeah, so we got out of that.

00:47:51.894 --> 00:47:52.818
Really early on.

00:47:52.818 --> 00:47:55.277
I just knew that that was a road that we didn't want to go down.

00:47:55.677 --> 00:48:04.418
Yeah, yeah, usually on jobs where you lose due to pricing, you get that call down the road of like, hey, can you fix it?

00:48:04.418 --> 00:48:05.240
It wasn't done right.

00:48:05.240 --> 00:48:12.873
And then I'm like, well, I can fix it, but somebody damaged your siding or they damaged something and it's going to require a repair that I don't do, so it's going to cost you more.

00:48:12.873 --> 00:48:25.096
It's like buy once, cry once, and it's kind of like I don't want to deal with somebody who's just looking for the most economic solution to every problem and I'm like I, I want to be like a nice mid-tier vehicle at the car lot.

00:48:25.096 --> 00:48:29.893
I don't want to be that cheapest, like kia that you got there at the lot.

00:48:29.932 --> 00:48:38.139
That's going to last you 30 000 miles and then you're gonna have warranty issues yeah, we, we've had a couple of those calls and I hate it, it really is.

00:48:38.139 --> 00:48:56.219
It breaks my heart because usually it's older people, um and like, when it comes, like especially gutters, like with gutter golf, like the, like the national brands, I don't want to, you know, give them free advertising on here, but you know who they are, they overcharge so much and I've had, you know, people that have.

00:48:56.219 --> 00:49:07.617
You know, we've quoted, you know, our leaf protector and gutter installation and then they've gone with the national brand and then they called us two or three years later and like, hey, our gutters are clogged and we called them and they won't come back here and fix it.

00:49:07.617 --> 00:49:15.844
And they said that there's a warranty issue because the company that did it wasn't a licensed installer, so their warranties for, or their warranties void.

00:49:15.844 --> 00:49:28.163
And I, I remember this one specifically they charged for like $22,500 for gutters, for their, you know, protector package, yeah, and our total cost was $2,250.

00:49:28.163 --> 00:49:30.027
So they were substantially more.

00:49:30.027 --> 00:49:37.898
I was like we could have taken gutters off of your house and put them back on for the next 10 years and still, you know, we were still in better shape, yeah.

00:49:38.280 --> 00:49:40.563
And then she's like, well, they just, you know, they really sold me on it.

00:49:40.563 --> 00:49:40.862
They was.

00:49:40.862 --> 00:49:42.485
They scared me.

00:49:42.485 --> 00:49:48.657
They said that because she was a widowed woman, she lived by herself and she was elderly, and they scared her.

00:49:48.657 --> 00:49:50.222
Like you can't come up here and clean these gutters.

00:49:50.222 --> 00:49:55.146
If you fall off the gutters and you're trying to clean them out, you're going to end up breaking your hip and no one's going to find you.00:49:55.146 --> 00:50:00.588


Like they really high pressure, just scary, just really piece of crap sales tactics.00:50:00.588 --> 00:50:02.190


And it worked on her, unfortunately.00:50:02.190 --> 00:50:05.170


So we had to come, you know, take off their entire gutter system, put ours back on.00:50:05.231 --> 00:50:14.840


I felt so bad, yeah, um, and I was like, look, if you have any issues in in the future, you know, like with them clogging or you know leaves, you know on or anything like that, call me.00:50:14.840 --> 00:50:19.099


Like I'm not going to give you any crazy story like, oh, an authorized, you know guy didn't do it.00:50:19.099 --> 00:50:21.945


Like no, I'm going to be out here the entire time for every step of the process.00:50:21.945 --> 00:50:28.358


Um, I'll be on site when you're going to get up so that way you know exactly who's putting them on and then if you have a problem, call me.00:50:28.358 --> 00:50:34.673


This is my cell phone number, um, but that kind of goes back to being an owner operator like I can pick and choose where I want to put myself.00:50:34.673 --> 00:50:40.003


And for her, I knew I needed to be there for her because she was already, you know, upset about getting hosed.00:50:40.003 --> 00:50:44.817


Yeah, you know, from a national brand, um, so yeah, and I hate it, um, and I'm.00:50:44.817 --> 00:50:47.702


If you come back to me, I will answer the phone and we will sort it out.00:50:47.923 --> 00:51:05.485


But yeah, I, I, I warned you this was not going to be, it's not going to be good, but it doesn't make it still tough to swallow yep, yep, and then, like you said, when you're like the owner, you can hop in and you're fresh and you're not like, well, sorry, I'm booked out on jobs for the next three weeks, I can't visit you.00:51:05.485 --> 00:51:11.927


You can say, hey, I got guys in the field driving revenue forward and I'm here to essentially like, do damage control if needed.00:51:12.789 --> 00:51:12.969


Yeah.00:51:14.454 --> 00:51:20.385


And but yeah, that's I'm, and to me it's like, yeah, we have competitors in our space too.00:51:20.385 --> 00:51:31.876


They like that hard sale that like hey, you need to close right now, like door-to-door in your face and I'm like generally, if somebody's trying to really hard sell you, they, they don't want you to do any research on your, they don't want you to figure it out.00:51:31.976 --> 00:51:39.257


It's like all emotion and it's probably the highest ticket yeah, I really I don't like hard sales, like we don't, we don't do it over here.00:51:39.257 --> 00:51:47.411


It just it really leaves a taste in my mouth, like when somebody comes to your door and they're trying to put a hard sale on you, like the door to our salesman go like how does it make you feel?00:51:47.411 --> 00:51:49.481


Okay, like it's usually you kind of get the ick.00:51:49.481 --> 00:52:06.389


So it's the same way as like I don't ever want to come up like a large part of what we do is sales Right connotation and I don't want to be viewed as, like you know, the pushy used car salesman who's trying to put, you know, duct tape and bondo on something just to get it out the door.00:52:06.389 --> 00:52:22.364


If I'm trying to give you, if I'm trying to give you a high pressure sales and something that especially like a crawlspace, you know that's you know 100, you know 100 or 1500 square foot, you know you're probably looking anywhere between five and ten thousand dollars, depending on which route we're going and how bad it is.00:52:22.364 --> 00:52:25.789


So a ten thousand dollar decision, that's not a high pressure state.00:52:25.789 --> 00:52:26.311


Like I'm not gonna.00:52:26.311 --> 00:52:28.766


Like hey, you know it's ten thousand dollars, but if you signed a day it's eight.00:52:28.766 --> 00:52:34.304


Like, okay, once again you've knocked two grand off the price, so you are overcharging them to start with.00:52:34.304 --> 00:52:36.695


Yeah, um, so I?00:52:36.695 --> 00:52:40.697


I think that just the whole high pressure stuff it doesn't work for us.00:52:40.838 --> 00:52:42.057


Here's the estimate.00:52:42.057 --> 00:52:43.498


I think it's good.00:52:43.498 --> 00:52:51.563


Our cross-based estimates are good for 15 days and the only reason we put that caveat in there is if our material prices go up.00:52:51.563 --> 00:53:02.168


So Aprilaires, who we partner with for dehumidifiers, if they were to change their price tomorrow from $1,000 to $1,100 or $1,500 to $1,600.00:53:02.168 --> 00:53:03.909


We're not going to eat that price.00:53:03.909 --> 00:53:08.331


But you've got a 15-day window and I have that relationship with them.00:53:08.331 --> 00:53:09.851


It goes back to our strategic partnerships.00:53:09.851 --> 00:53:13.753


If there's a price shift in the next 15 days, you're exempt from that.00:53:13.753 --> 00:53:27.789


So if I tell you today, hey, it's going to be $5,000 for the entire thing, even if my cost goes up on dehumidifiers, I've already submitted that ticket.00:53:27.789 --> 00:53:32.929


So as long as you can answer me in that time, it gives you plenty of time to think about it and I usually, before we follow up and check on you know, you know check on homeowners with our estimates.00:53:32.929 --> 00:53:37.878


I want to give them a couple of days to work it over, because usually it's a lot, you know on the gutter cleaning side.00:53:37.918 --> 00:53:38.679


Not really it's.00:53:38.679 --> 00:53:40.260


You know at most.00:53:40.260 --> 00:53:41.181


Well, you know at most.00:53:41.181 --> 00:53:44.585


You know our average ticket for gutters is you know $350.00:53:44.585 --> 00:53:48.128


But we're anywhere from you know $150 to you know $500 on gutter cleaning.00:53:48.128 --> 00:53:50.309


So that's generally an easier pill to swallow.00:53:50.309 --> 00:53:53.911


But you hand somebody an estimate for crosswise work and it's you know $7,500.00:53:53.911 --> 00:53:58.505


That's a lot more to digest, Specifically for something like on a crosswise.00:53:58.505 --> 00:53:59.286


You don't see it every day.00:53:59.286 --> 00:54:01.047


Your roof it's leaking.00:54:01.047 --> 00:54:03.208


Okay, you're going to throw $7,500 to the roof.00:54:03.208 --> 00:54:06.271


You're not going to throw $7,500 on your house.00:54:06.271 --> 00:54:09.563


So you have to really justify the value add for them.00:54:09.675 --> 00:54:18.460


Here's why it's important and that's a big part of our brand is education for the homeowners Like, hey, look, it's not just going to be here's the estimate, it's going to be this much to do it.00:54:18.480 --> 00:54:20.523


It's going to be this much to do it, it's this much to not do it.00:54:20.523 --> 00:54:23.186


Here's what's wrong with your crawl space.00:54:23.186 --> 00:54:29.726


Here's why it's a problem, here's how we're going to fix it and we're going to use these steps to fix it and to rectify the problem, to make sure it's not a problem going forward.00:54:29.726 --> 00:54:52.443


So there's a lot of information that we give them on day one, that we kind of let sit and marinate for a couple of have and then we go from there and generally I've felt like we've had a higher close margin with that approach versus you know calling, you know sending somebody an estimate and the next day like, hey, what are your thoughts?00:54:52.443 --> 00:55:04.349


Like you've got to give them a reason to want to do this because they're still having to spend their hard earned money on something that they realistically do not see every day and they don't know it's a problem, because you just magically showed up and said, hey, this is a problem.00:55:04.349 --> 00:55:07.597


Like you gotta, you gotta expand on that yeah, that's true.00:55:07.838 --> 00:55:15.264


And then, like you built that value in yourself as, like I, like you and I are kind of similar in the sense like, hey, we almost want to like partner with the homeowner.00:55:15.264 --> 00:55:17.539


Hey, like your house is dirty, I can make that happen.00:55:17.539 --> 00:55:19.501


It's just gonna be like a transaction of money.00:55:19.501 --> 00:55:21.746


And then they're like oh, how nice it looks.00:55:21.746 --> 00:55:22.989


This is how much I paid for it.00:55:22.989 --> 00:55:23.710


That was a great deal.00:55:23.710 --> 00:55:24.911


Or the same deal with you.00:55:24.911 --> 00:55:26.054


Like you give them information.00:55:26.054 --> 00:55:30.824


You're not scaring them into making like a rash decision purely on emotion.00:55:30.824 --> 00:55:32.976


You're giving them time to like process the data.00:55:32.976 --> 00:55:40.663


And then you back up that data with, hey, like I'm the expert here, because X, y and Z and anytime you have a problem that's raised, I'm going to be here to answer it.00:55:40.663 --> 00:55:49.958


And it gives it like builds trust and credibility in yourself where they have peace of mind of saying like, oh, if I spend 7500 bucks and something goes wrong, is somebody going to pick up the phone.00:55:51.041 --> 00:55:52.063


Yeah, that's.00:55:52.063 --> 00:55:54.596


That's really where we're at is we want to.00:55:54.596 --> 00:56:05.445


We want to solidify ourself as the expert in our field, depending on whether it's, you know, under cleaning installation or the crawlspace side or attic installation, whatever it is, I want to be the expert.00:56:05.445 --> 00:56:12.818


So and I've even had homeowners that have called me that like, hey, we're going to do this ourselves, but like how should we do this and why are we doing this versus this?00:56:12.818 --> 00:56:36.356


And like I don't know, I'll walk them through it because, at the end of the day, like I genuinely care about what I do and I'm passionate about what I do and if I can help somebody make you know their home better and safer or, you know, get them over the transaction hunt for real estate, because a lot of times, you know, gutters and crawl spaces will hold real estate transactions up for you know, for small things.00:56:36.396 --> 00:56:44.282


On an inspection report yeah so there's a lot of value add for what we do, but if you don't tell them how it's a value add, they don't know.00:56:44.282 --> 00:56:48.740


So if you're just specifically transactionally focused, you're not going to win as many.00:56:48.740 --> 00:57:06.782


You'll win, You'll still win some, but I think you know we found it's more viewed as a transaction Like hey look, you've done something, we paid you money, We'll see you.00:57:06.782 --> 00:57:08.280


So that way you understand why this is important and, like I said, we've got really high brand awareness.00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:11.396


I think that harkens back to how we approach things, that homeowners are more willing to say hey look, I would recommend this person because they took the time to explain every step of the process for us.00:57:12.195 --> 00:57:18.478


And essentially like nobody wants to be sold, so like we're all like our ears, like we pretty much tune people out that are trying to hard sell us.00:57:18.478 --> 00:57:29.563


But if you're literally just like being helpful and providing and like going to somebody and saying, hey, look like we do these all the time, this is like my business, I recommend doing X, y and Z and say they were trying to do it themselves.00:57:29.563 --> 00:57:35.527


If you give them the information, they might realize how long and detailed the process is and they'll start rationalizing.00:57:35.527 --> 00:57:40.931


It's worth paying him to do it right than me to try to do it myself.00:57:40.931 --> 00:57:44.733


Spend how many days and weekends to do it myself and to not even do it right?00:57:45.916 --> 00:57:56.644


Yeah, we had a guy that he checked us on insulation one time and we have a fantastic relationship with a supplier here for insulation and you know I gave him our quote for insulation.00:57:56.644 --> 00:57:57.840


He called us back two weeks later.00:57:57.840 --> 00:57:58.900


He's like I messed up.00:57:58.900 --> 00:58:00.742


I was like what do you mean?00:58:00.742 --> 00:58:02.240


And at this point he's not a customer.00:58:02.240 --> 00:58:08.478


I knew he wasn't a customer but I still answered his phone call.00:58:08.478 --> 00:58:08.739


Yeah, um, like.00:58:08.760 --> 00:58:13.159


So I went out to lowe's and bought the installation and I saved money, because I saved about a hundred dollars from what you guys would have installed it for.00:58:13.159 --> 00:58:15.992


Um, and we had already removed the insulation.00:58:15.992 --> 00:58:20.661


We already in the crawl space doing the vapor barrier, but he wanted to do his insulation, so, like, we'll remove it.00:58:20.661 --> 00:58:21.641


So we removed the insulation.00:58:21.641 --> 00:58:22.603


All I had to do was install it.00:58:22.603 --> 00:58:26.489


He said I saw how quickly you guys had everything else done.00:58:26.489 --> 00:58:37.838


You guys would have had the entire project done in a day, maybe two days, because I was down there for three weekends cutting, fitting and putting insulation up because I was itchy my clothes, you know my clothes were itchy.00:58:37.838 --> 00:58:39.884


I still feel like I smell the insulation.00:58:40.344 --> 00:58:52.601


Yeah, and I, I only saved a hundred dollars and I said I tried to tell you like we have an incredible deal on x on insulation and even that week we had a promotion with our supplier that it was even cheaper than it normally was.00:58:52.601 --> 00:58:56.498


And if I get a deal like that I will pass it on to my, to my customer.00:58:56.498 --> 00:59:00.472


Like I'm not going to eat those savings, I'm going to pass on that because it wants to make this look more attractive.00:59:00.472 --> 00:59:02.121


If I can make a fifteen hundred dollar job, go to a twelve hundred dollar job.00:59:02.121 --> 00:59:03.407


I'm going to pass on that because it wants to make this look more attractive.00:59:03.407 --> 00:59:04.864


If I can make a $1,500 job, go to a $1,200 job.00:59:04.864 --> 00:59:05.092


I'm going to do that.00:59:05.092 --> 00:59:16.123


But he still price checked us and ended up, you know he saved money but his opportunity cost for it was a loss because he spent three weekends of his free time, you know, in a crawl space cutting insulation.00:59:16.635 --> 00:59:26.637


Yep, we have that happen so many times with pressure washing it's like, oh, you can pressure wash.00:59:26.637 --> 00:59:27.481


Yeah, I watched a couple youtube videos.00:59:27.481 --> 00:59:27.842


It's so easy, yeah.00:59:27.842 --> 00:59:28.525


It's like what's your time worth?00:59:28.525 --> 00:59:29.447


And like the equipment that we have, we can.00:59:29.447 --> 00:59:30.351


We can do a 400 job in an hour.00:59:30.351 --> 00:59:31.876


And people are like, oh my gosh, that's so much money.00:59:32.179 --> 00:59:49.976


I'm like why don't you try it with your one gallon a minute pressure washer and you'll spend an entire weekend and then call me back and spend the same money yeah, your surface cleaner makes quick work of a driveway and sidewalks and they're out there with a wand and you know they've got strikes and streaks on it and it doesn't look great and they're just.00:59:49.976 --> 00:59:55.902


And every time you come home from work you're gonna look at that driveway and you're like I should have just called matt yep, yep, that's.00:59:56.081 --> 00:59:56.903


That's like the thing.00:59:56.903 --> 00:59:58.315


It's like hey, more power to you.00:59:58.355 --> 01:00:27.114


I'm not gonna if, if you can buy a 300 pressure washer from the and you're going to call me back in two weeks when you're frustrated with spending your whole weekend, yeah, yeah, I've never, and we've helped a couple of homeowners like that that have actually gone out and done it themselves and we've helped them and we've talked about, you know, doing like a coaching side of it, like to help people, like a DIY coaching side Not really ready to pull the trigger on it yet but I've never had one of them once like go into business doing it like they did it for themselves, like hey, and it looked great.01:00:27.114 --> 01:00:28.820


But you know I called him.01:00:28.820 --> 01:00:30.925


I was like you're not gonna, you know, start competing against me.01:00:30.925 --> 01:00:31.978


He goes, oh god, no, he goes.01:00:31.998 --> 01:00:32.581


This was awful.01:00:32.581 --> 01:00:33.043


I hate it.01:00:33.043 --> 01:00:35.394


I don't understand why this was your chosen profession.01:00:35.394 --> 01:00:43.965


So, yeah, I've never once lost a homeowner to me like genuinely going out and helping them and they've turned around and like done it themselves.01:00:43.965 --> 01:00:49.757


I've had a couple guys that work for us for you know a year or two and they've started their own company.01:00:49.757 --> 01:00:54.900


And irks me a little bit but at the end of the day, like I can respect them trying to go do something for themselves.01:00:55.181 --> 01:01:03.184


But you know it is what it is part of the business yeah, I mean, I've, I've, I've had similar instances where people they leave they're, they're like, oh, I'm going to have my own pressure washing business.01:01:03.184 --> 01:01:04.304


But they don't understand.01:01:04.304 --> 01:01:07.329


Like it's the business behind it that makes it successful.01:01:07.329 --> 01:01:08.271


It isn't the technical work.01:01:08.271 --> 01:01:13.199


I was like you can pressure wash houses all day long, but you're going to be like I don't know how to get jobs, I don't know how to hunt, I don't know how to do this.01:01:13.199 --> 01:01:16.521


It's like there's all that stuff Most people can't do.01:01:16.521 --> 01:01:18.402


What we do is not rocket science.01:01:18.422 --> 01:01:42.688


I tell homeowners and the guys that work for me all the time like look, there's nothing that we do here that is like technically hard, like it's hard work, it's hard labor, but everything that we do here is a learning scale, like I can teach anybody to do this, or anybody could theoretically teach anybody to do this, or anybody could theoretically teach themselves to do this.01:01:42.688 --> 01:01:48.001


With you know, enough discipline you could you know, watch enough YouTube videos and practical knowledge, you could figure anything that we do out.01:01:48.422 --> 01:01:48.583


Yep.01:01:49.155 --> 01:01:55.492


But the difference is that what makes us a successful company, and I've had guys that have worked for me and have seen enough of the business side of it.01:01:55.492 --> 01:02:05.954


They're like I could do what you do, and they've gone out and started their own thing and they're successful initially because their initial price point was like I'm going to be cheaper than you, okay, go for it.01:02:06.396 --> 01:02:11.047


Because they know our price point and I've had him directly sell against me on jobs.01:02:11.047 --> 01:02:12.822


He's beat me on, I'll admit it.01:02:12.822 --> 01:02:17.005


He got me on a few jobs just because his margins are less than mine.01:02:17.005 --> 01:02:23.023


But at the end of the day he doesn't have the equipment and the infrastructure to compete long term with us.01:02:23.023 --> 01:02:26.389


And I got a couple calls the other day that he sent.01:02:26.389 --> 01:02:30.481


He was like hey look, I just don't have the ladders for this, you know, and I'm not getting up on a three story house.01:02:30.481 --> 01:02:42.922


So you're gonna do all this work to get the business, but if you don't really invest in the practical side of the business, side of it, to grow it the correct way, you're gonna end up either giving it up or pushing it back somewhere else.01:02:42.922 --> 01:02:44.023


Yep, um.01:02:44.023 --> 01:02:48.838


So yeah, I got a call the other day from a former employee was like hey look, I'm going to send you one um.01:02:48.838 --> 01:02:52.246


And then he was like will you, uh, give me a referral fee?01:02:52.246 --> 01:02:54.358


I was like no, I'm not gonna do that.01:02:55.041 --> 01:02:57.005


That is what's funny too, like I'll see that too.01:02:57.005 --> 01:03:01.018


People like well, I'll pay you for my no if you can't if you can't go there's.01:03:01.018 --> 01:03:04.324


There's nothing that you're going to gain from like like.01:03:04.324 --> 01:03:09.755


There's no value that you have over me if you can't get the job done and a customer doesn't care.01:03:09.896 --> 01:03:11.581


A customer says well, these are my expectations.01:03:11.661 --> 01:03:15.420


If you can't meet them, I'll go somewhere else well, and it was funny, the homeowner asked me.01:03:15.460 --> 01:03:17.547


He was like, um, do you do a lot of work with them?01:03:17.547 --> 01:03:18.777


And I was like he's a former employee.01:03:18.777 --> 01:03:21.222


He's like, yeah, I called him and like he, you know.01:03:21.222 --> 01:03:25.550


He's like, yeah, I called him and he's like I can come out to take a look at it, because I can't do the second story.01:03:25.550 --> 01:03:28.777


I can do the first story but I won't be able to do the second story and the homeowner's like.01:03:28.777 --> 01:03:31.784


I don't want you to do half the house Like no, we're not doing that.01:03:32.266 --> 01:03:35.036


And he's like yeah, you know what, I've got somebody who can do this and he goes.01:03:35.036 --> 01:03:39.018


I've called three or four other gutter companies and One and two are can.01:03:39.039 --> 01:03:51.507


I was like you know, there's a lot of people that clean gutters in the upstate and honestly a lot of pressure washers do, but a lot of them don't have the equipment or like to invest on the taller size.01:03:51.507 --> 01:03:52.469


They're like the commercial stuff.01:03:52.469 --> 01:03:55.251


We get a lot of the commercial jobs just because we have big ladders.01:03:55.251 --> 01:04:00.940


You know, we've got two 40-foot ladders, I've got a 50-foot ladder All the way down to.01:04:00.940 --> 01:04:04.286


You know, simple, you know 14 like 10 foot a-frame ladders.01:04:04.286 --> 01:04:06.742


I've got a ton of ladders but ladders are super expensive.01:04:06.742 --> 01:04:09.996


Yeah, um, and I've had homeowners check me on that before.01:04:09.996 --> 01:04:14.155


I'm like, hey, look, you know it's 350 to do your house and like, well, I'll just go buy a ladder for that.01:04:14.155 --> 01:04:20.068


It's like, okay, you go to lowes and find a ladder for 350 bucks that'll do the back house.01:04:20.068 --> 01:04:24.056


And then in two hours I get a phone call like hey, when can you come?01:04:24.317 --> 01:04:32.103


yeah, because they look at the ladder and and just like a 20 foot ladder is a thousand bucks yeah, like a 40 foot ladder with a standoff on it.01:04:32.202 --> 01:04:34.347


I mean, like we even got ours on sale.01:04:34.347 --> 01:04:35.637


I think we still still fit.01:04:35.637 --> 01:04:39.771


You know, 800 on one of our fiberglass 40 foot ladders, yeah.01:04:39.771 --> 01:04:53.684


But also, even if you do have a 40 foot ladder, you, if you don't have the truck, if you're doing everything out of an SUV and you've got a little giant ladder which is great for doing small houses, a 40-foot ladder folded up is still 22 feet long.01:04:53.684 --> 01:05:01.784


Most I've got a big truck with a big commercial ladder rack on it and I don't drive around with all these ladders because I think it looks cool.01:05:01.784 --> 01:05:04.668


No, I get awful gas mileage and I can't go through drive-thru.01:05:04.668 --> 01:05:05.188


That's true.01:05:05.387 --> 01:05:21.623


I have it on there so I can go to work nothing like going to chick-fil-a with a ladder on top and you're like I can't turn I know I'll go in there and I'm like I've measured, I know exactly how tall it is now, um, but it was like it was nervy because you know you're out working on the road.01:05:21.623 --> 01:05:24.588


I don't love to have to go fast food, but if I have to I will.01:05:24.588 --> 01:05:27.342


Yeah, I'm always like am I going to hit here or not?01:05:27.342 --> 01:05:29.255


Because some drive-thrus are smaller than others.01:05:29.255 --> 01:05:36.202


And then sometimes I'll get through the ordering part and it says it's, you know, eight foot six inches, and then the hood over the window is not eight foot six inches.01:05:36.443 --> 01:05:45.099


Exactly yeah, but but yeah, like, almost to the point of like.01:05:45.099 --> 01:05:48.355


When somebody says, oh, like it's not rocket science, I was like you have a kitchen in your house, yet you still go to a restaurant so what does that tell you?01:05:48.355 --> 01:06:02.096


And it's yes, it's like we're service-based yeah that's a good it's like why do people spend 40 for for food out at a restaurant when they can make probably a better quality meal for less at their house?01:06:03.259 --> 01:06:11.442


you'll go out and the steak is expensive at the restaurant, like people will turn their nose up at at steak, that's, you know, six dollars a pound.01:06:12.043 --> 01:06:30.039


But you'll go out to a restaurant and then you'll you'll get it for, you know, fifty dollars a piece and they covered in butter and parsley yeah, and you're paying the higher market because it's the service you know like and sometimes it's sometimes it's going to be better at the restaurant, but a lot of times you can still make great steak at home, like it's not hard.01:06:30.039 --> 01:06:32.144


Yeah, once you get it, it's a learned skill.01:06:32.144 --> 01:06:34.420


You could do it at home, you just don't want to exactly.01:06:34.820 --> 01:06:35.242


Yeah, that's.01:06:35.242 --> 01:06:51.318


But yeah, I think like you and I both have similar sales processes where we're not hard-selling people, we're not like putting the fear of God in them, we're essentially just hey, this is what it is, laying everything out, laying out all the details, and then we're saying like I'm the trusted expert here, like yeah we're.01:06:51.318 --> 01:06:58.940


We're providing a clear roadmap where they have a decision of do I want to figure it out myself, do I want to waste my whole weekend, or do I want to trust this professional guy, who?01:06:59.021 --> 01:07:14.260


he's not trying to hard sell me, so he must be plenty busy and he's an authority in the space yeah, I think you create value by trusting yourself and trusting the process, and there's granted, there's plenty of jobs that we've lost because of that.01:07:14.260 --> 01:07:14.641


That.01:07:14.641 --> 01:07:26.190


You know they're wanting to get what we do for bottom dollar and that's just not how we do it, um, and there's plenty of times that, yeah, that another company will come swoop in and grab it because they can just be cheaper than us.01:07:26.190 --> 01:07:33.061


I've had other companies go as far as like name drop b specifically, which I have no idea who they are, and they'll come in like, yeah, I can do everything trevor can do for this much.01:07:33.061 --> 01:07:35.217


I'm like, well, that's wild, because I don't know who he is.01:07:35.217 --> 01:07:38.583


Yeah, um, but if that's what he says, then that's fine.01:07:38.583 --> 01:07:39.365


You know, like good luck.01:07:39.365 --> 01:07:41.190


And they're like, well, wait, hold on.01:07:41.190 --> 01:07:45.851


Like sometimes, if you're so quick to dismiss it, and they're like, well, wait, what do you know that I don't know.01:07:45.851 --> 01:07:49.184


I was like I don't know who that is, like I specifically can't tell you how their work is.01:07:49.184 --> 01:07:50.349


I know how my work is.01:07:50.811 --> 01:07:52.583


I also know that, you know, something goes wrong.01:07:52.583 --> 01:08:17.555


And two months down the road, two years down the road, three years down the road, four years down the road, we're still going to be here, right, we've been here for seven years and you don't last for seven years and go through covid and all these other things like you don't have a company that lasts this long by screwing people over and pulling one over people like we have a fantastic reputation because of treating people right and doing what we say, how we're going to do it and when we're going to do it, and I don't ever back and cost off like off a budget.01:08:17.555 --> 01:08:21.979


The last thing I'm going to do is tell you we're going to do a job for $1,500.01:08:21.979 --> 01:08:24.863


Like, hey, we ran into this expense and obviously sometimes it happens.01:08:24.863 --> 01:08:27.686


But if I can eat costs and something like that, I will.01:08:27.686 --> 01:08:30.069


But also we're very thorough in our consultations.01:08:30.130 --> 01:08:52.519


I try to not miss things like that no-transcript and all the fascia board is rotten and sometimes you can't really see it until you get the gutters off.01:08:52.519 --> 01:08:55.461


You know you've got to pull the fascia board off or the fascia wrap, whatever it is.01:08:55.461 --> 01:09:03.003


If that fascia board behind the gutters is rotten or the soffit's rotten, sometimes you can't see it until you pull that fascia wrap and the gutter's off.01:09:03.003 --> 01:09:04.365


It's like, hey, look, here's what it is.01:09:04.365 --> 01:09:07.610


Or same thing with roofing I can't see the wood underneath.01:09:07.610 --> 01:09:13.315


I can see it a little from the attic.01:09:13.315 --> 01:09:18.162


But if I get up on top of your roof and we start doing the tear off and I've got five sets of plywood sheets that are completely rotten, I've got to go.01:09:18.162 --> 01:09:19.463


I've got to replace it.01:09:19.925 --> 01:09:22.849


I can't put it back on a rotten plywood, we have to fix it.01:09:22.849 --> 01:09:24.051


Here's what the cost is.01:09:24.051 --> 01:09:28.121


So I think sometimes it's okay, but I want to be very thorough in our process.01:09:28.121 --> 01:09:29.164


I don't want to back in costs.01:09:29.164 --> 01:09:29.877


I think that's just.01:09:29.877 --> 01:09:30.900


I think that looks trashy.01:09:31.523 --> 01:09:48.395


I hear you there and I think it's just like hey, being transparent with people and then like hey, showing value is like hey, I'm problem best interest at heart, because I care more about being in business for the next seven years, as I've been for the past seven years, than to make a little bit of money on your house.01:09:48.796 --> 01:09:49.979


And like I do that too.01:09:51.222 --> 01:09:55.338


Yeah, I'll like zoom out on people and I'm like, all right, you have a three or $400 job.01:09:55.338 --> 01:10:05.948


I don't care to like ruin my reputation when we do a thousand of these jobs a year over the and then we're're, we're in business and we're growing our business, like there's bigger fish to fry than this little problem.01:10:05.948 --> 01:10:10.082


It's almost like trying to like reframe issues that people are like in the moment.01:10:10.103 --> 01:10:29.778


They're like this is the biggest issue in the whole wide world and I'm like no, like yeah, it's like we, we got this like specifically in your jobs, like whenever we get a lead from from you um, they're time sensitive one, because usually if somebody calls us, they need us to do the gutters first, so that way you guys can come through and do your job yeah uh, so I'm having to estimate quickly.01:10:29.858 --> 01:10:35.382


So you know, we'll use our software, whether it's, you know, eagle view or google, you know google earth, whatever.01:10:35.382 --> 01:10:39.597


So I've got roofing software that I can pull and I can measure gutters pretty accurately.01:10:39.597 --> 01:10:40.739


And I'll call them and look, look, I'm.01:10:40.739 --> 01:10:42.521


You know, here's their numbers.01:10:42.521 --> 01:10:43.224


I'm like, well, how do you know?01:10:43.224 --> 01:10:49.059


It's like, well, I can pull saddle images, I can pull property I in a roofing company I've got, I've got lots of options.01:10:49.059 --> 01:10:55.082


Yeah, um, so I'll pull the roofing report and I'll get, like you know, a read out of the gutters and it's pretty accurate.01:10:55.082 --> 01:10:58.498


Um, and I'll tell them like, look, if it, you know their house measures.01:10:58.498 --> 01:10:59.983


You know 200 linear feet of gutters.01:10:59.983 --> 01:11:01.608


I'm'm like, hey, look, it's going to be about 200 bucks.01:11:01.608 --> 01:11:08.145


If I get out there and I completely miss something and it's an extra 75 feet and it should be 275, I'm going to eat that.01:11:08.375 --> 01:11:14.463


I'll tell them, look, if I get out there and I'll tell you right now, it's $200 and it measures under, all right, we'll drop it down.01:11:14.463 --> 01:11:28.979


If I get out there and it measures over, I'm not here to, especially with the gutters.01:11:28.979 --> 01:11:32.173


You know you're going to have them as a repeat customer if you do the right thing from day one, yeah.01:11:32.173 --> 01:11:38.056


So hey look, instead of being 375, you're 300, and you're 300 next year and the year after that, unless we have any crazy pricing.01:11:38.056 --> 01:11:43.728


You know price increases, but you know, and us cleaning gutters, for five years we haven't changed our prices because it's just labor.01:11:43.728 --> 01:11:44.930


There's not, it's a fixed cost.01:11:44.930 --> 01:11:48.398


Yep, so we're not, you know, we're not changing our price structure.01:11:48.398 --> 01:11:59.618


Um, and for the most part, people that we cleaned on day one, back in 2020, their rate is still the same, if not cheaper, because we give them, like you know, repeat customer discount yep, no doubt.01:12:00.439 --> 01:12:01.862


yeah, that's a lot of a of good nuggets.01:12:01.862 --> 01:12:03.404


We're like an hour and 12 minutes.01:12:03.404 --> 01:12:07.329


You got anything you want to say, or you want to wrap it up, or oh we can wrap it up.01:12:07.329 --> 01:12:09.899


Yeah, that's, that's fine.01:12:09.899 --> 01:12:11.250


I mean, I don't want to hold you up all day, if need be.01:12:11.653 --> 01:12:12.697


So no, you're good.01:12:12.697 --> 01:12:13.780


Yeah, whatever.01:12:13.780 --> 01:12:16.637


Whatever, if you've got any other questions, we can start wrapping it up.01:12:16.979 --> 01:12:27.913


But yeah, I think building a brand on like trust, transparency, is is vital to like long-term growth and like like referral business and that's how you and I operate like the biggest thing.01:12:27.993 --> 01:12:42.297


I think when people try to hard sell and they're selling like and they're not like congruent with their true self and they're just kind of being a dirtbag to a customer, they have customer service and operations nightmares and that's one thing they don't understand because like oh, I hired a sales rep, this is how much money he's generating me.01:12:42.297 --> 01:12:47.578


They compartmentalize that guy so his job is just to push as many, push as much revenue as possible.01:12:47.578 --> 01:12:58.983


And then, like when you're doing the operations and you're managing it, it's like this is a nightmare and then expectations aren't met because a lot of times people over hype expectations and it just becomes a dumpster fire.01:12:58.983 --> 01:13:14.636


So like I found it easy, like how you and I both do it with like that value add, no pressure, like people are just attracted to us and then and then like it's more of a seamless transaction of business yeah yeah, I think it's really hard to come back from that, like if you do it the wrong way.01:13:14.695 --> 01:13:17.685


So yeah, we, we have a customer first focus.01:13:17.685 --> 01:13:28.867


So that way, like, if we can, obviously we're business, we have to turn profits and generate revenue to stay in business, but if you take care of the customers and the homeowners, the rest takes care of itself.01:13:28.867 --> 01:13:34.020


So, yeah, take care of the customer first and then if you can turn a profit at the end of it, then that's great.01:13:34.020 --> 01:13:40.479


But you know, ideally here we're problem solvers, we're here to solve your problem and you know, obviously there's a transaction fee in the back end of it.01:13:40.479 --> 01:13:44.847


But the whole point and foremost is you have a problem we're going to solve and here's how we're going to do it.01:13:45.368 --> 01:13:46.050


Yeah, that's awesome.01:13:46.050 --> 01:13:47.939


So, yeah, where can people find you?01:13:47.939 --> 01:13:51.364


They've been listening to your show and they're like, hey, I have a crawl space that needs help.01:13:51.364 --> 01:13:57.377


Where's the best way to reach out to get gutter cleaning and crawl space work done?01:13:58.399 --> 01:14:05.023


Yeah, so you can find us on Facebook and Instagram at VaporLock Crawl Space or at VaporLockSC.01:14:05.023 --> 01:14:13.608


You can also Google us and find us on the internet under Google my Business page at VaporLock Crawl Space Solutions.01:14:14.349 --> 01:14:14.609


Sweet.01:14:14.609 --> 01:14:17.990


But yeah, I appreciate you hopping on for the fourth episode here.01:14:18.030 --> 01:14:19.771


Yeah, thanks man, I appreciate it.01:14:20.033 --> 01:14:27.064


It's one of those things we could talk forever, so I'm almost like all right, I got to cut it off Hour and 15 minutes, I know Be the longest show by 15 minutes is awesome.01:14:27.636 --> 01:14:32.201


When you asked me how long do you have, I was like well, I could say 30 minutes, but you and I could end up talking forever.01:14:32.201 --> 01:14:33.265


I know, I know.01:14:44.414 --> 01:14:44.421


I'm like thank God I pay for the professional version.01:14:44.421 --> 01:14:48.168


But cool, yeah, if that's everything, I'm gonna drop the uh, the outro here and then uh, if you guys need any work, make sure to reach out to trevor.01:14:48.168 --> 01:14:49.314


Appreciate that.01:14:49.314 --> 01:14:48.912


Thanks for being on the show.01:14:48.912 --> 01:14:50.037


All right, see ya.